we've heard from john boehner, we've heard from the president. we are lacking details, but it seems to me we're ahead in this conversation than we have been in the last six months. where do you see this going as the guy who looks into the credit risk of everybody in the world? >> i want to extrapolate, ali, from every experience in california. we voted for higher taxes in order to fund better education. and i think people are recognizing that fiscal sustainability has a newman rart and a deno, ma'minator. the numerator is about sustaining growth and paying debts. i think it's known that we need to establish both. it's not going to be a big jump, and i think richard is correct in reminding us this is a long haul, and let's focus on both the numerator and the denominator. >> the point steven has just made, and i will point out as well, you cannot have it both ways. you cannot remind us on the one hand that there is a $1.6 trillion deficit and on the other hand say we won't have tax raised. >> this is america. we've been doing that for 25 years. >>